Hi all, It was mentioned in the 'how the K2 smart converter works' post that for some, the drain on the battery when the DVR is 'off' is considered excessive (quoted as in the range of 40mA).
I do not own a multimeter nor have much electrical knowledge, but I was wondering if there's a way to minimise the drain on the battery while the DVR is off? I was planning to not have the parking mode on in any case, but for example, would manually pressing the on/off button on the DVR minimise the battery drain?
The last thing I would want is to have my battery drained due to having the camera. Thanks for your time.
Mine draws 40ma with the ignition and camera off. This is a massive amount for a battery around the
10 amp/hour capacity and it is not an option to let it continue. My battery was down to 12.11V this afternoon and that is after 2 days. I have a PDM60 power module for my accessories and it is programmable and the camera is now running from that. The PDM60 is set up for a 7 second delay on powering up and, given that there is a delay on the camera power module as well, it will increase the power up delay. I have also programmed the K2 camera channel to stay on for 20 seconds after ignition shutdown and this allows the files to be written to the SD card. The consequences of this, as I see it, are that "Park" mode is not going to be available at all and maybe the GPS will take longer to find itself. There may be others but I will have to live with it.
Alternatively you could put a switch in the line but you will have to remember to switch it off! I would think a 2 or 3 amp rated switch wuold be ok or you could use a relay with a small switch.
I don't think it makes any difference whether you switch it off at the DVR or use ignition off.
Hi Keith, Thank you for your insight. If I was to put a switch into the circuit, which wire would it be put in? Would it matter? I imagine I would still need to connect the yellow wire to a switched power source in order to have the last video saved? Thanks again. Herman
@hhau2274
Yes, you are right.
Yellow wire from the converter needs to connect to the switched power source from motorcycle, that is to send message to the converter and camera system to stop recording and save the last video clip.
Well done, Keith.
That is how the forum works. Getting people connected and sharing the ideas.
This has me a bit puzzled. Why would there be a drain on the bikes battery when the DVR is off? Isn't this the entire purpose of connecting the yellow wire to the bikes switched 12v power source? The K2 power converter is supposed to be a "smart" voltage reader. I would imagine the design of this camera system is supposed to avoid this from happening and if it is indeed causing a draw when bike and power to the DVR is off that to me sounds like a design flaw. It should not be drawing current from the battery when powered down. Customers shouldn't have to worry about adding a switch IMHO. Defeats the point of this system to be automated and run on it's own. Adding a switch is only going to cause folks from forgetting to on/off every time you get on the bikeand the system is advertised as such for our safety. There is enough to already think about for me between gear to prep, routes, phone hookup, etc when jumping on the bike.
@Rock Liu - I feel this needs to be addressed and corrected in a firmware update. Please advise/confirm.
I think the GPS is being left on for some reason. Before my diode modification, the GPS fix was instant. Now it takes several minutes. This suggests that the GPS module was already powered and had a fix before starting the bike.
Of course, but it is not a firmware problem. The power module is poorly constructed and should be replaced. All users.
Use the diode on the red wire. This partially solves the problem.
I think the bulk of the issue is a combination of a hardware problem with the DVR and a firmware problem that leaves GPS powered. That said, the converter itself also draws a fair amount, but not the majority.
@Peter
What diode? More info please? I will definitely put whatever necessary in line on the +12v red power line to resolve this. Is there another post as reference in here regarding this?
Add a 1N4003 diode (available online or many other places) in the black/negative lead as described in the post peter linked to.
Putting it in the red wire will work too, but I think it's slightly better to put it in the black wire.
Parking mode will no longer work.
@sniper1rfa
I don't like rise negative potential, but maybe diode in the black wire is better.
Thank you for good idea :)
@Peter Probably fine either way, but diode on negative means the red and yellow wires see the same change in potential. Whether that matters at all is unknown.
Look here: https://www.innovv.com/forum/innovv-k2/how-innovv-k2-smart-converter-works
Thank you Peter. I happen to stumble across that thread just before you led the way by providing this link. How's the diode method working for you?
Yes. :)
Just as another solution to the power drain problem.
I've addressed this issue by using a relay with a delayed cutoff (Hella 5HE996152131).
The switched power goes to both the power converter and the relais. So both recognizes when the ignition is turned on or off. But K2 power converter is not directly connected to the battery, but rather only to the relay.
Means:
When the ignition is turned on, the relay delivers power to the K2 power converter, which in turn powers up the K2.
When the ignition is turned of, the K2 power converter will let the K2 shutdown within 10 sec. After another 10 sec the relay will cut off the power to the power converter, which reduces the power drain to zero.
Of course this means, that the parking mode isn't available anymore.
This solution is not as smart as a PDM60, but much cheaper.
Regards,
Frostie
Thank you for sharing, that is smart idea,
Hella 5HE996152131 can be found on ebay from below link,
https://www.ebay.com/p/5he-996-152-131-HELLA-Time-Relay-12-V/26009867821
A good idea!
I checked. Power consumption 100uA. Very good.
Frostie: Thank You.
@Rock Liu it seems not so cheap at least from italy... what specs should the relay have to be good? so i can search for a local product maybe cheaper...
spending 50€ to "fix" an issue of an expensive product that should work "as-is" seems bad...
my battery goes down in 2 days with INNOVV K2
what is the easiest solution for someone like me who is not expert in electrical stuff?
Also of course this issue shoult be addressed officially by INNOVV, we purchased a premium product with an high price and this issue is really hard to miss by a test team....
edit: is it possible to compeltely disable gps (software, or physically remove it) to avoid the battery drain?
would the dvr work if gps is detached from the wire?
Hi Andrea,
I guess the problem is not only the GPS, but the DVR constantly consuming power to make the parking mode available. But I agree with you, that INNOVV should mention the constant power consumption in the technical specifications. Or, at least, in the manual.
40mA does not sound much. But that are nearly 1Ah a day, which easily drains a motorbike battery after some days.
Regarding your question about the easiest way...implementing a relais is no rocket science.
I made a fast drawing for you, which explains the wiring.
The numbers at the relais represents the pins. They are all numbered. The graphics shows four pins, but there are actually five pins. Pin 87a just needs to be insulated, as the Relais will switch power between pin 87 and 87a.
In the on-state, power is at pin 87. That's when you want the K2 to get power
In the off-state, power is at pin 87a. You don't need that pin, but must insulate it to avoid any hazard.
And, of course, you should put a fuse in the +-Line. Something between 5-10A.
You should get the necessary cables, plugs and fuses at nearly every shop for car accessories.
Regards,
Frostie
@Frostie thank you for your comment....I will try to find in italy that relay
edit: is it an expensive product? I see it on ebay at 44£!
is this ok? it is a 10 seconds relay: https://www.amazon.it/30-AMP-10-secondi-tempo-ritardo-protezione/dp/B07DN8JZ6P/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1546421588&sr=8-1&keywords=relay+10+secondi
For clarification: are you folks saying that with parking mode OFF, the K2 will drain a battery in just a couple of days? Or is that only when parking mode is ON?
on my motorbike, without parking mode, innovv k2 is able to kill my lithium battery in 2 days.
I am waiting for a solution.... I don't want to buy additional stuff to circumvent a clear defect of the device.
Yes, it can drain the battery. Read here for more Infos.
https://www.innovv.com/forum/innovv-k2/how-innovv-k2-smart-converter-works
On my new bike, the voltage of the battery went down to 12,1V within three days. I was still able to start, but I could here the starter had a hard job. I checked the power usage of the K2 without parking mode enabled and got 42mA. According to the info within the mentioned link, the power usage will decrease to 8mA when the voltage of the battery drops below 11,7V. But that would already mean the battery is empty and the bike will not start. Just add some more days with 8mA, and the battery will be dead.
As a rule-of-thump, the K2 takes 1Ah/day till the voltage drops below 11,7V
Solutions are currently:
- But a Diode at the negative line to make the power converter think the battery is below 11,7V. This will decrease the power usage to 8mA all the time (=0,2Ah/day) (see link)
- Use a timer relay to completely cut off power to the K2 after shutdown (see my posting above)
Reduces power usage to 0, but costs around 40-50€
@Andrea Z. Hmmm. I left my bike unplugged for three days, the voltage went from 12.5 to 12.3 over the course of three days. Is your bike's battery quite small?
The voltage drain is slightly concerning. I normally use a battery tender so it's no big deal generally, but there are times I have to leave the bike at a remote location (untendered) for 5 days or so. It started last time, but now I'm a little concerned about the next time I have to do that.
to everybody, please write privately to INNOVV, I did yesterday and Rock answered as the issue is something new and never heard.... If they receive an email from everybody maybe they will be forced to face the problem.
How can Rock say that this issue is new to him and was never heard? This thread is about power drain and Rock answered here. And in another thread about the power drain issue, too.
For example:
https://www.innovv.com/forum/main/comment/5bb01d558b0b6b006a3680c5
So Rock / INNOVV knows about this Issue.
@Frostie
This should not be happening! Rock why haven’t you addressed this problem I’ve just fitted the K2 system and have yet to have a ride with everything fitted now after reading all the crap about battery drain whats the point in using this and why have we got to buy all these bits relays switches just to make your life better!!!!!!!!!!! I’ll be taking this further!
Am I wrong or did some postings get lost? I got a notification about a posting from sniper1rfa and Andrea Z., but can't find them here.
@thatsagoodnameinit
I am with you that this...lets call it design flaw.. is in fact annoying. And of course it should be solved by Innov. But it does not render the whole K2 useless, as there are several ways to address the problem.
So no need to get mad :-) No new electronic device is flawless. My GoPro 3, for example, drains its battery within three days when switched off. And it sometimes crashes during video downloads. So compared to my GoPro, the K2 runs fine. I am still satisfied with the K2, even as I had to spend 40€ to make it work as intended. Because even with that the K2 is (for me) still cheaper than two Actions Cams with a bunch of batteries. And much easier to install on my bike.
Don't get me wrong. I don't want to come to Innovvs defence. The constant power drain is a problem they have to solve. And as a minimum they should mention it at their technical specs, so everybody nows about it BEFORE buying the K2. But everybody who already bought one can use some of following ways to solve the power drain problem.
- You can pull the fuse if you don't use the bike for some days (not smart at all, but no costs)
- You can put a switch in the line to manually switch power on/off (little bit smart at low costs)
- You can put a diode in the negative line to make the Power Converter think the battery is dead (still small drain, but low costs)
- You can use a relais with delayed cutoff to automatically cut the power (smart, but costs around 40€)
Or you can plug in a battery tender, for those who are parking it someplace that has access to AC power.
@subscribe parking mode makes sense when I park on the street, not inside my box ;-)
We have been working on the converter to fix the problem. Changed the Chipset from the converter and redesigned the PCB.
Ideally, we were thinking to have the power supply from battery to support the parking mode, also have battery power drain protection, that if the converter detected the voltage is lower than 12V, the power supply cut off.
The reality is motorcycle battery has so much low power capacity, that could not stand it for long.
@Rock Liu change the chipset? That's a hardware change. What happens to all of us that already purchased your initial K2 design? You going to swap all of our units out free of charge? I'm expecting this action from you and your company
I don't understand how something so obvious in proper design be overlooked before production and sales.
And the forum is set for listen to the feedback, we are following up the discussions and taking action to fix the problem. that is the way to make the product to be good.
Please trust that we never ignore your voices and always keep improvement.
After speaking to Steve n Jess the UK supplier I’m less worried now as I have the lastest converter being I bought my K2 in January 2019 so hopefully I wont have any issues, thanks to everybody who responded and to you Rock!
Steve & Jess are so nice guys, working 12 hours a day and 7 days a week for support.
And I appreciated your trust! and being proud of that!
My K2 was purchased from Amazon (OCD) on Feb 1, 2018. Has FW 20180925.V0.39, the power supply has no ID markings. I do have to go to airplane mode on my MotoG5 to connect, but everything works as it should on the bench. Here's my power draw findings:
Running/recording: 400ma
Stand-by, parking mode disabled, battery >12.5v : 6ma for 10 secs, 10ma for 10 seconds (50% duty)
Stand-by, parking mode disabled, battery <12.5v : 6ma
Stand by w/parking mode, battery >12.5v: 32ma until trigger, then drops to 10ma. *
Stand by w/parking mode, battery <12.5v: 6ma
*Seems like parking mode is good for 1 event, though I did not give more than a few minutes for it to reset.
Bought mine in November 2018 from Innovv UK. Firmware is 20180925.V0.39, too. Don't know whether the power supply has an ID or not (can't check now).
Power consumption in Stand-By with parking mode disabled is 44mA with battery at 12,3V.
I did not test it with the battery at a lower voltage or with parking mode enabled.
But on the positive site, I don't have to switch to airplane mode to connect, as you have to :-)
@dvdPlayfair
You are professional and the result you tested are correct.
To protect the battery, even the parking mode enabled, the power supply will be reduced to be 6mA only.
@Frostie
The power consumption will be reduced after 12.3V.
I see that the power module has been repaired. I am very happy.
I understand that new modules will be sent to existing buyers.
When can you expect a contact?
Recently Left my Bike for 10 days and although i had planned to pull the fuse i forgot in the rush to get packed etc. My bike is a 2015 BMW R1200GS and i tested the battery on my return and found 11.9V. Battery is not hooked up to a charger as it lives in an unpowered Garage down the Garden. Hit the Starter and although it laboured considerably it did fire up. Luckily the Weather was about 9 Deg C so wasn't really cold. Now in the past i regularly leave the bike for up to 6 weeks when away on business trips so will need to remember to pull the fuse for these trips. But thats not a major issue for me. My big concern is the parking mode which i want to use when away on bike camping trips etc. If leave it at airport, which i do quite often to go away for a short trip for up to a week at a time for example.
Will i come back to a dead battery? I know Rock and Innovv are working on this issue and look forward to a usable solution to allow full functionality. Have also posted regarding this issue as have many others in the (How the INNOVV K2 smart converter works) which also has had some heated debates about this issue.
great news, I received the track number for the expedition of my new smart converter.
I will surely post in the forum a review and test how much my battery can last with the new converter!
Did you write directly to INNOV on this matter?
@Peter yes, send an email directly to innovv, explain that you have the terrible battery drain that is well documented on the forum (maybe link some of these posts like this) and you really need a new smart converter... I assume Rock will reply and send you a new one.
It went like this for me.
@Andrea Z. Thank You. I send e-mail and wait :)
Just tested the new version sample, indeed it is new chipset, new PCB layout, <=12,75 - should be 1mA.
Will keep posted.