Has anyone had issues with an Innovv K2 causing interference with the tyre pressure monitoring system on a BMW R1200GSA?
Here's my story
Denali CanSmart with front D4's, Soundbomb and rear B6 fitted by Innovv UK recommended supplier/installer Moto-Mate, together with Innovv K2, initially wired to spare port on CanSmart set to switched output
All good on the bench, but first test ride showed rear type sensor failed to show a reading
As the CanSmart uses the RDC port as a passthrough to the CanBus first thought was the CanSmart. No error lights on CanSmart, firmware on both units all updated. So CanSmart swapped for new unit - issues remained
Through various logical diagnosis routines, we disabled the Innovv (just removing the fire at first). Everything returned to normal, so our attention shifted to the Innovv
Unit was relocated to several positions. Same with the Voltage convertor. Issues still remained
Wiring routing changed. Issues still remained (rear reading not showing - and just to explain rear sensor dash error was no signal, NOT low battery, but with Innovv disabled the reading immediately returned)
Innovv yellow trigger wire removed from CanSmart and took direct feed off the rear light wiring as recommended - issue still remained
Swapped K2 unit for new unit - issue still remained
Removed Front camera - reading returned. Thought we'd found the fault so replaced the front camera. During all the above the fitter was doing numerous test rides at each stage. Feeling he'd found the issue I then took it for a test ride - rear reading failed
Carefully working out what the difference was between me and him - I carried my phone that was connected to the Innovv Wi-Fi. Disabled Wi-Fi - reading returned. Set my wi-fi to NOT Auto-Join, will only connect when I want to download when stationary as you'd expect
So far seemed that a combination of front camera failure and my wifi was causing interference to signal
After 2 days of install/reinall and one further evening we thought we had cracked it. But next day on commute everything failed as before. Put phone into airplane mode, things came back
So on return commute tried to get more granularity than airplane mode, trying various combinations of airplane mode, wifi mode, mobile 3g/4g, helmet intercom, satnav bluetooth, and phone bluetooth
Finally seemed to be that if I had Phone Bluetooth enabled it failed, but with it off the reading returned. Bear in mind though I never had any issue with phone bluetooth connected to satnav and headset before Innovv was installed
And even then trying this routine the next day resulted in (with phone bluetooth off) that the readings returned, but only for 10 minutes. Then they disappeared for 10 minutes. Then returned for the remainder of the 1 hour commute. Yet the return gave a consistent reading for the entire duration
All of this ONLY if Innovv is powered up. If I remove the fuse everything works as normal
Saturday we are trying the shorter 1.5m camera lead if it will reach, and fitting numerous ferrite cores as suppressors to both camera leads
Anyone else, I've seen other non-elaborate references to both location/leads/use of cores on other sites not necessarily specific to the K2
During all this Rock has tried to be contacted, sadly no response from several attempts. I'd be pleased to get some response from Innovv, so far Innovv UK are advising they need HQ feedback, but none has been forthcoming from Rock yet
Thanks for your attention to read this far, interested in any thoughts please!
And to add my speed/GPS was not working, reset the various settings and got it back, but now gone again
Also notice my voltage convertor has no sealing on one wire, and is not the latest v3 version that includes the status LED
Hi Steve,
I have no experience with BMW, its tyre pressure sensors and Innovv, but one of your points striked my eye.
If you remove the front cam, the K2 will continuously reboot without starting its wifi. So that your tyre pressure sensors works if the front cam is removed does not neccessarily mean that the front cam is the cause.
There is another thread about the same problem. Maybe you can find some answers there
https://www.innovv.com/forum/innovv-k2/interference-with-tyre-pressure-sensors
Hi Frostie
Thanks for the input, I was hoping you might have some idea, I get rom other threads you've really gained a good grasp of some of these things
Can you elaborate on your point about running without a front camera though, as looking on Rock's feedback and Ricardo's feedback it seems to conflict? Or maybe I've misunderstood
We found that removing the front cam removed the issue (at first), so swapped to another new camera unit. On 2 tests after that it seemed ok. But then the next day the issue returned, and after trying the other items in my list it seems now to be only if I have bluetooth on on my phone. But to stress 2 things - swapping the front camera improved things if only temporarily, and although no the diagnosis seems to be bluetooth on my phone affecting it, that's only in combination with the K2 being on, if I disable the K2 by the fuse (back to a pre-install state) everything works as it did before, regardless of phone bluetooth, hence the logical assessment that it is still in some way the K2 the has overall introduced the issue
I shall for completeness do what Ricardo tried, we already have planned as our next steps trying a new front camera with the shortest (1.5m) lead, and fitting it with ferrite core suppressors (on another thread (not for a K2) someone tried 4 cores per camera!
Rock LiuModeratorFeb 14
@RICARDO VELEZ
Can you remove the front camera from DVR, only keep the rear camera to work, to see if the same thing happen?
That is to verify if the interference happen between camera to the tie pressure sensor or DVR to it.
Reply0 RICARDO VELEZFeb 20
@Rock Liu hi friend. I remove the front cam and work fine the Tyre sensor but the cam wiffi don't work. If I remove the rear cam, the wiffi sensor working well but the tire sensor don't work fine.
Today I will going to take my bike for a maintenance and always they connect to the computer to check many things.
I will tell you after that.
Reply1RICARDO VELEZFeb 21
Hi Rock my friend. I do it again what you told me. Unplugged the front lens, turn on , turn off and plugged again. Thanks . I don't know what is going on inside the wiffi but the pressure sensor work fine right now. Thanks.
Well...as I have access to the boot log of the K2, I can tell for sure that the K2 won't startup completely without the front cam.
This is the boot log of the K2, running V49 with front cam removed. As we can see, there is no initialization of the wifi system, as the K2 first tries to initialize the cameras. But as the first cam cannot be found, it gets an error and tries a hardware reset. Means...it reboots (the "halt" command at the end). The Wifi system gets initializes right after the cameras (see short log after this log).
Regarding what may be going on here, I can only asume that the type pressure sensor or the transmission of data is sensitive to some of the frequencies the K2 is emitting. And the fact that the sensor works if wifi is disabled, it seems that it is sensitive to wifi.
To check this, you could simply unplug the K2 and put a wifi router on the same position as the K2 is mounted and check if this disables the sensor, too.
Boot Log without front cam
Watch the IPL_PATH commands above. Here is what would come next if the front cam is connected.
There is no way for a customer to switch off wifi after making the settings. This can only be done be modifying the firmware. But as it is nearly impossible to find the "Wifi on/off" switch, all I could try is to delete the wifi settings or other parts of the wifi system. Of course this would lead to an error and eventually to a permanent reboot, like what happens when you remove the front cam. And even if I am successfull, it would mean you have to run the K2 with its default values, as there would be no way for you to make your settings.
If you want, I can try to modify a firmware that way, but in my eyes this would be the wrong approach to solve this problem.
First I would check if wifi is really the problem by using some other kind of wifi device (router, access point or even smartphone in hotspot mode). If this test reveals that wifi is the cause of the problems, I would ask BMW why their system is sensitive to wifi. TPMS Systems usually uses 433MHz (EU) or 315MHz (US). They should not be jammed by 2,4Ghz wifi signals.
You could also try shield of the wifi signal from the K2 by putting it in some kind of metal case. For first tests you could simple wrap the K2 in tinfoil.
Now this is interesting, my front tyre‘s sensor is reading wrong on my 2015 GSA , I thought maybe the sensor‘s battery is low, I might have the same issue or not, however I am still trying to figure out the random corrupt files that I get in my K2 🤷♂️
Hi Farzad. You say your reading is wrong, rather than not getting a reading as I experience? I acknowledge TPMS readings aren't accurate, they are indicative rather than accurate compared to an accurate gauge reading manually taken from the valve. Without more detail I'd say any inaccurate readings are 'normal' rather than being any k2 issue? Always interested to hear more though in case there is any link - for example if you disable your K2 does your readings accuracy improve - if not then it sounds like their cannot be any link to the K2 causing it
Thanks, nothing to do with the CANbus system?
Shouldn't be if connected properly. How have you currently got the yellow wire wired to?
As far as I can see, the best way would tap the accessories fuse.
Hi.
I have a 2017 GS; I've mounted my DVR inside the left side panels bellow the fuel tank, and my rear TMPS readings is taking a lot more to show some info.
Usually I would get both tires' readings a few seconds after starting riding, now the front one takes a bit more (usually under a minute) and the rear one takes variable time, up to a few minutes.
Although my system isn't working properly (I'm still fighting it :( ) I do have wifi right after the bike's electrics is started.
Yes,
Sadly
Sorry for that I am not so active on the forum to support the team.
But for sure, I should check everyday.
As suggested, please do check below, that helps to verify what wrong indeed.
The checking on hardware from K2,
1. to remove both cameras, and power on DVR, to see if there is interference.
2. plug front camera to DVR and do check,
3. plug the rear camera to the front port on DVR and check.
Innovv UK have offered me a refund, but I want a working unit, but right now your lack of focus on my issues strongly shows me you don't care, and such glib feedback as above just proves that. Get involved, get up to date, because I will not let this drop as you seem wiling to do
I will ask my buddies whether they can check the K2 with a frequency analyzer. Just to see on which frequencies, beside Wifi, the K2 is sending.
The interference between TPMS and K2 may come from two parts,
1. The WiFi from K2 and Bluetooth from TPMS,
2. The video cables or other hardware parts from K2 and Bluetooth from TPMS.
The checking on hardware from K2,
1. to remove both cameras, and power on DVR, to see if there is interference.
2. plug front camera to DVR and do check,
3. plug the rear camera to the front port on DVR and check.
The whole set of K2 had passed EMC testing, but still need to check what wrong indeed.
Thank you!
Much appreciated!
Has this been resolved yet? It’s just dawned on me that my rear TPMS problem (15 plate 1200 GSA) matches up with the Innov install.
Hello
According to the feedback from relevant customers during this period, we have launched a Beta firmware.
This firmware does not have WiFi function.
After you install it, K2 system will normally record video after the motorcycle is turned on.
We hope to test whether there is interference caused by WiFi through this beta software.
You can download it by clicking the link below.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/l77y0lfo6i80ixa/K2.bin?dl=0
Or you can simply turn off the GPS function and see if there is any interference.
Thank you
Just talked to one of my buddies, who has a deep knowledge regarding EMC-troubles. He could test the K2, but to clearly find the reason for the TPMS issues, he would also need a TPMS. Let's salvage a GS for that :-) (no...not really).
But from what I told him about the issues some people here have, he is almost certain that the reason for this issues is an overload of the TPMS receiver, causes by the nearby Wifi sender.
Even if the TPMS receiver has a frequency filter, due to the short distance, the Wifi sender would make him completely deaf.
His tips are:
Bring as much distance as possible between the Wifi sender and the TPMS receiver. Not really possible at a motor bike
Put a metal plate between the K2 and the TPMS receiver. Important is, that the plate does NOT touch the K2. There should be some centimeter distance between the K2 and the plate.
I guess the only satisfying solution is a way to switch off Wifi.
When you say metal, is Aluminium enough, or steel plate. I can have a go, but as you end, it really needs a SW toggle on the WiFi to resolve at source rather than all sorts of bodge workarounds that are difficult to put in place, unique to each install, and even then not guaranteed
I think he does not mean Aluminium.
I have a 2016 R1200GSA and installed the K2 in 11/18. I pre-ordered so got a very early version.
My TPMS worked fine until this spring when the front TPMS would not read anything. After a while of driving it usually woke up and gave an accurate reading, but not always. I assumed that my battery was going dead on the TPMS..... until I read this thread.
Now I find that it does seem to work more reliably if I kill the power to the K2. I wonder if it is a combination of sensor battery
power and interference under the seat where my K2 is installed using a PMD60. (see photo).
I have the same issue with my 2015 GSA front TPMS, I personally think these guys rushed their product out of the door, now we are their hope to figure out all these issues, I have no problem with it except paying $450 for it!
@
Hugh Allen
According to the feedback from relevant customers during this period, we have launched a Beta firmware.
This firmware does not have WiFi function. After you install it, K2 system will normally record video after the motorcycle is turned on.
We hope to test whether there is interference caused by WiFi through this beta software.
You can download it by clicking the link below.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/l77y0lfo6i80ixa/K2.bin?dl=0
Or you can simply turn off the GPS function and see if there is any interference.
Please let us know the result after trying.
Thanks,
Hello allen,
I would like to know have you tested V0.62?
We need to collect feedback to improve the APP and firmware and solve the problem of interference fundamentally.
If you have any feedback, please reply to us in time.
You can also contact us at innovv@innovv.com.
The following is the download address of firmware 0.62 (without WiFi function) :
https://www.dropbox.com/s/l77y0lfo6i80ixa/K2.bin?dl=0
Thank you!!
Cheers Hugh. I’m at my wits’ end with this system. Certainly not delivering what it says on the box!
I ordered a Faraday bag meant for cell phones from Amazon and will see if maybe that is a quick solution to blocking signals from the K2.
But you should use the bag only for testing purpose. The K2 needs airflow, as the bottom of the case is used as a heatsink for the DSP.
We have been checking if the problem from camera. seems like few customers are facing the same issue.
Can you add ferrite core to the video cable close to Type C plug? and see if that helps.
https://www.amazon.com/eBoot-Pieces-Ferrite-Suppressor-Diameter/dp/B01E5E5IY4/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?keywords=ferrite+core&qid=1568719621&s=gateway&sr=8-1-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUE1TzgxUk9XMU5ISUwmZW5jcnlwdGVkSWQ9QTAwMDYxODVIVTJJR1BUTUtHTlAmZW5jcnlwdGVkQWRJZD1BMDczOTA1NTNIUVVNVUJEUjRURE4md2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9hdGYmYWN0aW9uPWNsaWNrUmVkaXJlY3QmZG9Ob3RMb2dDbGljaz10cnVl
It has been 3 months now since first raising my issue, you keep saying you are looking at it, then when I remind you I get a repeat of the same answer. We agreed some months ago a SW based switch to disable WiFi was the way to go, but you keep avoiding answering my question on WHEN. Please advise of an ETA for fixing this, do NOT avoid the question please
Will make a testing firmware to switch WiFi signal off on K2, and send it for your testing to see if still has interference.
If without interference after WiFi switched off, will make update firmware and APP to switch WiFi after power on 5 or 10 minutes later, or never switch off WiFi, different options.