Has anyone had issues with an Innovv K2 causing interference with the tyre pressure monitoring system on a BMW R1200GSA?
Here's my story
Denali CanSmart with front D4's, Soundbomb and rear B6 fitted by Innovv UK recommended supplier/installer Moto-Mate, together with Innovv K2, initially wired to spare port on CanSmart set to switched output
All good on the bench, but first test ride showed rear type sensor failed to show a reading
As the CanSmart uses the RDC port as a passthrough to the CanBus first thought was the CanSmart. No error lights on CanSmart, firmware on both units all updated. So CanSmart swapped for new unit - issues remained
Through various logical diagnosis routines, we disabled the Innovv (just removing the fire at first). Everything returned to normal, so our attention shifted to the Innovv
Unit was relocated to several positions. Same with the Voltage convertor. Issues still remained
Wiring routing changed. Issues still remained (rear reading not showing - and just to explain rear sensor dash error was no signal, NOT low battery, but with Innovv disabled the reading immediately returned)
Innovv yellow trigger wire removed from CanSmart and took direct feed off the rear light wiring as recommended - issue still remained
Swapped K2 unit for new unit - issue still remained
Removed Front camera - reading returned. Thought we'd found the fault so replaced the front camera. During all the above the fitter was doing numerous test rides at each stage. Feeling he'd found the issue I then took it for a test ride - rear reading failed
Carefully working out what the difference was between me and him - I carried my phone that was connected to the Innovv Wi-Fi. Disabled Wi-Fi - reading returned. Set my wi-fi to NOT Auto-Join, will only connect when I want to download when stationary as you'd expect
So far seemed that a combination of front camera failure and my wifi was causing interference to signal
After 2 days of install/reinall and one further evening we thought we had cracked it. But next day on commute everything failed as before. Put phone into airplane mode, things came back
So on return commute tried to get more granularity than airplane mode, trying various combinations of airplane mode, wifi mode, mobile 3g/4g, helmet intercom, satnav bluetooth, and phone bluetooth
Finally seemed to be that if I had Phone Bluetooth enabled it failed, but with it off the reading returned. Bear in mind though I never had any issue with phone bluetooth connected to satnav and headset before Innovv was installed
And even then trying this routine the next day resulted in (with phone bluetooth off) that the readings returned, but only for 10 minutes. Then they disappeared for 10 minutes. Then returned for the remainder of the 1 hour commute. Yet the return gave a consistent reading for the entire duration
All of this ONLY if Innovv is powered up. If I remove the fuse everything works as normal
Saturday we are trying the shorter 1.5m camera lead if it will reach, and fitting numerous ferrite cores as suppressors to both camera leads
Anyone else, I've seen other non-elaborate references to both location/leads/use of cores on other sites not necessarily specific to the K2
During all this Rock has tried to be contacted, sadly no response from several attempts. I'd be pleased to get some response from Innovv, so far Innovv UK are advising they need HQ feedback, but none has been forthcoming from Rock yet
Thanks for your attention to read this far, interested in any thoughts please!
And to add my speed/GPS was not working, reset the various settings and got it back, but now gone again
Also notice my voltage convertor has no sealing on one wire, and is not the latest v3 version that includes the status LED
Hi Steve,
I have no experience with BMW, its tyre pressure sensors and Innovv, but one of your points striked my eye.
If you remove the front cam, the K2 will continuously reboot without starting its wifi. So that your tyre pressure sensors works if the front cam is removed does not neccessarily mean that the front cam is the cause.
There is another thread about the same problem. Maybe you can find some answers there
https://www.innovv.com/forum/innovv-k2/interference-with-tyre-pressure-sensors
Hi Frostie
Thanks for the input, I was hoping you might have some idea, I get rom other threads you've really gained a good grasp of some of these things
Can you elaborate on your point about running without a front camera though, as looking on Rock's feedback and Ricardo's feedback it seems to conflict? Or maybe I've misunderstood
We found that removing the front cam removed the issue (at first), so swapped to another new camera unit. On 2 tests after that it seemed ok. But then the next day the issue returned, and after trying the other items in my list it seems now to be only if I have bluetooth on on my phone. But to stress 2 things - swapping the front camera improved things if only temporarily, and although no the diagnosis seems to be bluetooth on my phone affecting it, that's only in combination with the K2 being on, if I disable the K2 by the fuse (back to a pre-install state) everything works as it did before, regardless of phone bluetooth, hence the logical assessment that it is still in some way the K2 the has overall introduced the issue
I shall for completeness do what Ricardo tried, we already have planned as our next steps trying a new front camera with the shortest (1.5m) lead, and fitting it with ferrite core suppressors (on another thread (not for a K2) someone tried 4 cores per camera!
Rock LiuModeratorFeb 14
@RICARDO VELEZ
Can you remove the front camera from DVR, only keep the rear camera to work, to see if the same thing happen?
That is to verify if the interference happen between camera to the tie pressure sensor or DVR to it.
Reply0 RICARDO VELEZFeb 20
@Rock Liu hi friend. I remove the front cam and work fine the Tyre sensor but the cam wiffi don't work. If I remove the rear cam, the wiffi sensor working well but the tire sensor don't work fine.
Today I will going to take my bike for a maintenance and always they connect to the computer to check many things.
I will tell you after that.
Reply1RICARDO VELEZFeb 21
Hi Rock my friend. I do it again what you told me. Unplugged the front lens, turn on , turn off and plugged again. Thanks . I don't know what is going on inside the wiffi but the pressure sensor work fine right now. Thanks.
Well...as I have access to the boot log of the K2, I can tell for sure that the K2 won't startup completely without the front cam.
This is the boot log of the K2, running V49 with front cam removed. As we can see, there is no initialization of the wifi system, as the K2 first tries to initialize the cameras. But as the first cam cannot be found, it gets an error and tries a hardware reset. Means...it reboots (the "halt" command at the end). The Wifi system gets initializes right after the cameras (see short log after this log).
Regarding what may be going on here, I can only asume that the type pressure sensor or the transmission of data is sensitive to some of the frequencies the K2 is emitting. And the fact that the sensor works if wifi is disabled, it seems that it is sensitive to wifi.
To check this, you could simply unplug the K2 and put a wifi router on the same position as the K2 is mounted and check if this disables the sensor, too.
Boot Log without front cam
Watch the IPL_PATH commands above. Here is what would come next if the front cam is connected.
@Frostie I won’t pretend to understand the code, just some highlights, but knowing other things I’ve read from you I’m happy to trust your summary. So assuming it is the sensor signal clashing with the Wi-Fi, and given I only need Wi-Fi when I’m not riding (if ever...), is there a way to set in the firmware to disable Wi-Fi? Because as useful as the app is, once my settings are set I don’t need to reset them ever, and so would be happy to access files and handle formatting directly by extracting the card if it meant everything played happily together!
@Steve Bendall
There is no way for a customer to switch off wifi after making the settings. This can only be done be modifying the firmware. But as it is nearly impossible to find the "Wifi on/off" switch, all I could try is to delete the wifi settings or other parts of the wifi system. Of course this would lead to an error and eventually to a permanent reboot, like what happens when you remove the front cam. And even if I am successfull, it would mean you have to run the K2 with its default values, as there would be no way for you to make your settings.
If you want, I can try to modify a firmware that way, but in my eyes this would be the wrong approach to solve this problem.
First I would check if wifi is really the problem by using some other kind of wifi device (router, access point or even smartphone in hotspot mode). If this test reveals that wifi is the cause of the problems, I would ask BMW why their system is sensitive to wifi. TPMS Systems usually uses 433MHz (EU) or 315MHz (US). They should not be jammed by 2,4Ghz wifi signals.
You could also try shield of the wifi signal from the K2 by putting it in some kind of metal case. For first tests you could simple wrap the K2 in tinfoil.
Now this is interesting, my front tyre‘s sensor is reading wrong on my 2015 GSA , I thought maybe the sensor‘s battery is low, I might have the same issue or not, however I am still trying to figure out the random corrupt files that I get in my K2 🤷♂️
Hi Farzad. You say your reading is wrong, rather than not getting a reading as I experience? I acknowledge TPMS readings aren't accurate, they are indicative rather than accurate compared to an accurate gauge reading manually taken from the valve. Without more detail I'd say any inaccurate readings are 'normal' rather than being any k2 issue? Always interested to hear more though in case there is any link - for example if you disable your K2 does your readings accuracy improve - if not then it sounds like their cannot be any link to the K2 causing it
@Steve Bendall I think so too, my reading has been wacky but I personally think it’s running out of battery since the back reads good.... my issue is been the corrupt fiels and the dealer has send me a new one, I am changing piece by piece to see where the issue is, first was the power unit, it lookes like it has solved the issue, but when I stop and turn the bike off I still get a corrupt file, one from the front one the back, I will go for a long ride to see how it works, if it works when I am moving I will be fine with it! And deal with the annoying corrupt fiels!
@Farzad Salehi If the only corrupt file is the last file that sounds like you haven't connected the yellow trigger wire correctly, it needs that to retain power to fully stop and save the last recording
Thanks, nothing to do with the CANbus system?
Shouldn't be if connected properly. How have you currently got the yellow wire wired to?
@Steve Bendall I have connected it to the rear brake light, taking it for a ride tom and will update you on that!
@Farzad Salehi I don't think that connecting the yellow (trigger) wire to the rear brake light is the correct way! It could be OK if connected to the rear lights (not break), but even so, that could disrupt the CAN BUS.
As far as I can see, the best way would tap the accessories fuse.
Hi.
I have a 2017 GS; I've mounted my DVR inside the left side panels bellow the fuel tank, and my rear TMPS readings is taking a lot more to show some info.
Usually I would get both tires' readings a few seconds after starting riding, now the front one takes a bit more (usually under a minute) and the rear one takes variable time, up to a few minutes.
Although my system isn't working properly (I'm still fighting it :( ) I do have wifi right after the bike's electrics is started.
Yes, @dashOssaurius, does seem more recently installed units are interfering more with TPMS
Sadly @Rock Liu seems to ignore the feedback and doesn't respond to my requests for help
@Steve Bendall
Sorry for that I am not so active on the forum to support the team.
But for sure, I should check everyday.
As suggested, please do check below, that helps to verify what wrong indeed.
The checking on hardware from K2,
1. to remove both cameras, and power on DVR, to see if there is interference.
2. plug front camera to DVR and do check,
3. plug the rear camera to the front port on DVR and check.
@Rock Liu if you had bothered to read and respond to all my earlier posts here and emails to Innovv direct, and mails from Innovv UK and from Phil Nichols of Moto-Mate you would be up to date to know al this has been tried. I strongly suggest the if you are going to respond you at least respond to the full history, and not just a quick response here without knowing all the background history that has been going on for weeks but which you and your company have completely ignored me
Innovv UK have offered me a refund, but I want a working unit, but right now your lack of focus on my issues strongly shows me you don't care, and such glib feedback as above just proves that. Get involved, get up to date, because I will not let this drop as you seem wiling to do
I will ask my buddies whether they can check the K2 with a frequency analyzer. Just to see on which frequencies, beside Wifi, the K2 is sending.
The interference between TPMS and K2 may come from two parts,
1. The WiFi from K2 and Bluetooth from TPMS,
2. The video cables or other hardware parts from K2 and Bluetooth from TPMS.
The checking on hardware from K2,
1. to remove both cameras, and power on DVR, to see if there is interference.
2. plug front camera to DVR and do check,
3. plug the rear camera to the front port on DVR and check.
The whole set of K2 had passed EMC testing, but still need to check what wrong indeed.
Thank you!
Much appreciated!
Has this been resolved yet? It’s just dawned on me that my rear TPMS problem (15 plate 1200 GSA) matches up with the Innov install.
@steeleseries1 , no, not yet. @Rock Liu is looking at a SW change to allow WiFi to be disabled, until then my issue seems to e dined by others with similar experiences, so I hope Rock can come up with a solution
Hello @steeleseries1
According to the feedback from relevant customers during this period, we have launched a Beta firmware.
This firmware does not have WiFi function.
After you install it, K2 system will normally record video after the motorcycle is turned on.
We hope to test whether there is interference caused by WiFi through this beta software.
You can download it by clicking the link below.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/l77y0lfo6i80ixa/K2.bin?dl=0
Or you can simply turn off the GPS function and see if there is any interference.
Thank you
Just talked to one of my buddies, who has a deep knowledge regarding EMC-troubles. He could test the K2, but to clearly find the reason for the TPMS issues, he would also need a TPMS. Let's salvage a GS for that :-) (no...not really).
But from what I told him about the issues some people here have, he is almost certain that the reason for this issues is an overload of the TPMS receiver, causes by the nearby Wifi sender.
Even if the TPMS receiver has a frequency filter, due to the short distance, the Wifi sender would make him completely deaf.
His tips are:
Bring as much distance as possible between the Wifi sender and the TPMS receiver. Not really possible at a motor bike
Put a metal plate between the K2 and the TPMS receiver. Important is, that the plate does NOT touch the K2. There should be some centimeter distance between the K2 and the plate.
I guess the only satisfying solution is a way to switch off Wifi.
When you say metal, is Aluminium enough, or steel plate. I can have a go, but as you end, it really needs a SW toggle on the WiFi to resolve at source rather than all sorts of bodge workarounds that are difficult to put in place, unique to each install, and even then not guaranteed
@Steve Bendall
I think he does not mean Aluminium.
@Frostie Thanks, I'd assumed so too, just ally is easier to source/fabricate, but I doubted it would shield as well. I'll see what I can do with some scrap steel plate
I have a 2016 R1200GSA and installed the K2 in 11/18. I pre-ordered so got a very early version.
My TPMS worked fine until this spring when the front TPMS would not read anything. After a while of driving it usually woke up and gave an accurate reading, but not always. I assumed that my battery was going dead on the TPMS..... until I read this thread.
Now I find that it does seem to work more reliably if I kill the power to the K2. I wonder if it is a combination of sensor battery
power and interference under the seat where my K2 is installed using a PMD60. (see photo).
I have the same issue with my 2015 GSA front TPMS, I personally think these guys rushed their product out of the door, now we are their hope to figure out all these issues, I have no problem with it except paying $450 for it!
@
Hugh Allen
According to the feedback from relevant customers during this period, we have launched a Beta firmware.
This firmware does not have WiFi function. After you install it, K2 system will normally record video after the motorcycle is turned on.
We hope to test whether there is interference caused by WiFi through this beta software.
You can download it by clicking the link below.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/l77y0lfo6i80ixa/K2.bin?dl=0
Or you can simply turn off the GPS function and see if there is any interference.
Please let us know the result after trying.
Thanks,
@Hugh Allen
Hello allen,
I would like to know have you tested V0.62?
We need to collect feedback to improve the APP and firmware and solve the problem of interference fundamentally.
If you have any feedback, please reply to us in time.
You can also contact us at innovv@innovv.com.
The following is the download address of firmware 0.62 (without WiFi function) :
https://www.dropbox.com/s/l77y0lfo6i80ixa/K2.bin?dl=0
Thank you!!
Cheers Hugh. I’m at my wits’ end with this system. Certainly not delivering what it says on the box!
I ordered a Faraday bag meant for cell phones from Amazon and will see if maybe that is a quick solution to blocking signals from the K2.
But you should use the bag only for testing purpose. The K2 needs airflow, as the bottom of the case is used as a heatsink for the DSP.
@Hugh Allen I tried one, because of the cables I ended up just cutting out the shielding fabric of the bag and velcro'd it to the top/bottom of the unit - made no difference, but then there wasn't a full seal on it so not sure it could be expected, it really was a bodge to try to identify any resolution. If you can try better (even as only a test as Frostie suggests) would all be useful info
We have been checking if the problem from camera. seems like few customers are facing the same issue.
Can you add ferrite core to the video cable close to Type C plug? and see if that helps.
https://www.amazon.com/eBoot-Pieces-Ferrite-Suppressor-Diameter/dp/B01E5E5IY4/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?keywords=ferrite+core&qid=1568719621&s=gateway&sr=8-1-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUE1TzgxUk9XMU5ISUwmZW5jcnlwdGVkSWQ9QTAwMDYxODVIVTJJR1BUTUtHTlAmZW5jcnlwdGVkQWRJZD1BMDczOTA1NTNIUVVNVUJEUjRURE4md2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9hdGYmYWN0aW9uPWNsaWNrUmVkaXJlY3QmZG9Ob3RMb2dDbGljaz10cnVl
@Rock Liu I have 4 ferrite cores fitted to each camera cable, they did not resolve my issues
It has been 3 months now since first raising my issue, you keep saying you are looking at it, then when I remind you I get a repeat of the same answer. We agreed some months ago a SW based switch to disable WiFi was the way to go, but you keep avoiding answering my question on WHEN. Please advise of an ETA for fixing this, do NOT avoid the question please
@Steve Bendall
Will make a testing firmware to switch WiFi signal off on K2, and send it for your testing to see if still has interference.
If without interference after WiFi switched off, will make update firmware and APP to switch WiFi after power on 5 or 10 minutes later, or never switch off WiFi, different options.
@Rock Liu ok, thanks. When do you expect this test unit will be available to try?
@Steve Bendall Hello Steve,
According to the feedback from relevant customers during this period, we have launched a Beta firmware.
This firmware does not have WiFi function.
After you install it, K2 system will normally record video after the motorcycle is turned on.
We hope to test whether there is interference caused by WiFi through this beta software.
You can download it by clicking the link below.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/l77y0lfo6i80ixa/K2.bin?dl=0
Or you can simply turn off the GPS function and see if there is any interference.
Please let us know if you have any update.
Thanks,
@Steve Bendall
As a hint regarding the Beta firmware. I just tested it on my spare K2 and, indeed, the wifi is completely off. So far everything looks like intended.
But I discovered some strange behaviour when trying to shutdown the K2 via command. It stopped some subsystems, but did not shutdown completely. It did shutdown properly when I disconnect the yellow cable. So maybe this behaviour only occurs when using the shutdown command. So you should watch closely whether the K2 did shut down properly or not to avoid you drain your battery.
And thanks for @Frostie's support on this.
Hello all, entering late in this discussion but I stumbled on something by accident, i have a 2015 GSA and like others i had issues with the front TPMS, now because i ride lots of off-road with the bike i bought a second set of wheels with sensors , in my case the silver version, this being the optional wheels for the “normal” GS LC, went to the dealer to read them in expecting the same problems like my original wheels but since they where read in, i didn’t experience a single problem with the TPMS.
hello, may I know the camera system you using is K2?
After you replaced the second set of wheels, is the tire's strength normal now?
Hello, yes, using K2, firmware V57, app-version 1.1.8. and no issues with the second set.
I will keep you informed when i am back from my next off-road vacation and what happens when change back to my 1st set of wheels.
@filip.jacobs3 The TPMS/RDC system in the BMW ECU is able to recognise different pairs of TPMS sensors for exactly your scenario of swapping wheels, sometimes they need registering y serial number by the dealer, sometimes you are luck. Seems you were lucky. The issue in this post is that registered sensors that worked before fitting a K2 have interference, but only some of us, not all. So again it seems you are a lucky one!
Could it be new wheels --> new TPMS --> new battery --> stronger signal, so no interference (for now) ??
@Steve Bendall
hi Steve, that’s what they told me before i went to the dealer, but since an factory-update it is not possible anymore(for now) to program multiple sets of TPM sensors in the ECU, so for this moment i have to return to have them read-in every time i change my wheels.
So not that lucky after all :(
@dashOssaurius
Nope, bought them used....
@innovv I really don't want this to be negative, because for many months I have complained and now I see you are trying to help us resolve things with the reset release of the new firmware that removes WiFi, with i welcome massively
But is it really necessary to post so many identical posts to each individual that has raised the issue, then a follow up post chasing the only 2 days later. Im all for proactively trying to move this forward, but now the relevant threads are covered in duplicated posts and is very difficult to keep up with genuine feedback
Can you at least post once that there is a solution and in it tag in the same post all the users concerned, rather than posing to each user individually. I personally have promised my feedback when I get chance to ride y bike this weekend, I'm sure the others will follow up. I am just struggling with the threads now reading pages of duplicate messages you post, and hundreds of meaningless notifications where I'm following the thread, but just keep seeing 20-30 pots by you of the same message. If individual contact is necessary use one post with everyone tagged in the same one, or even use the Chat function?
I totally agree with you Steve, I can put all the people I want to inform in the same comment, so it won't generate too much information.
It seems that I have done a very stupid thing :(
Sorry for the inconvenience caused.
@innovv Great, I totally understand you wanting to get the message out there, so please don't take my comments badly, onwards and upwards with the progress. I'll be sure to give you my feedback at the weekend
@Steve Bendall thank you!